Could we offer savings on the cost of game days to members?
In short we could set the price of game days to non-members as £5 extra, rather than taking £5 off our regular cost. That way we lose nothing, but our membership have a perceived saving.
Whilst I'm thinking of this, should we start factoring in ALL our costs for what we charge for game days? For example, our travel costs? We really shouldn't be out of pocket after events that we run in any way. Perhaps this would be better discussed separately to this thread.
In short we could set the price of game days to non-members as £5 extra, rather than taking £5 off our regular cost. That way we lose nothing, but our membership have a perceived saving.
It's possible - one one the reasons to start a membership/AFRA scheme is to encourage people to play at our games, and a game discount is what all airsoft sites all over the country use as an incentive/benefit...
Could we offer savings on the cost of game days to members?
In short we could set the price of game days to non-members as £5 extra, rather than taking £5 off our regular cost. That way we lose nothing, but our membership have a perceived saving.
Whilst I'm thinking of this, should we start factoring in ALL our costs for what we charge for game days? For example, our travel costs? We really shouldn't be out of pocket after events that we run in any way. Perhaps this would be better discussed separately to this thread.
Dont like this idea, it's not very inclusive. 
Bear in mind you only want to join if you can't be assed with the UKARA route and you want to buy guns.
Bear in mind the only reason for doing it is to aid our memebrs and build a bit of loyalty, it's not about generating a direct revenue stream other than acting as an encouragement ot come to our games.
I was just trying to suggest a way of creating a saving for players without meaning us burdening a cost, I see what you mean though.
I think if we get in there first then we can catch a steal on SH with membership. The other obvious advantage we have by going down this route is that we cater for all WW2 players, not just Kampfgruppe members.
I'm having a shite week, so this may not necessarily come out the right way:
1: This needs to be *totally* separate to the forum. Don't want any old wanker saying "oh yes, go WW2 forum, pretend you're going to play and get your membership card sorted easily" You can be a member of the CiA Forum, but you aint automatically a member of the "WW2 Airsoft Tactical Battle and Skirmish Association" (or whatever crap it ends up getting called)
2: Not keen on just having one "visit" to qualify. We need two. And people need to be there for the whole event, as it shows they are dedicated. And i'd also suggest that it incorporates a minimum period in which those two events have to be attended within (say, 6 months?)
3: Qualifying events can be whatever WW2 "events" (be that a game or a training day) that a member of the executive committee - or a representative of - is present at.
The reason I say two games and an 6 month "probationary" period is that when it comes down to the tricky matter of discussing with retailers about buying kit, i personally don't want them to say "oh look how easy it is to do - its an obvious workaround"
Now, the difficult bit. What the fuck does AFRA insurance actually cover you for? And what does it not cover. I can quite imagine an insurance assessor having kittens if he finds out that (shock, horror) we actually fire stuff at each other, instead of using blanks (even though there are numerous cases of people having been killed by blank)
In short, looking at it from the punters POV, what is it that they are buying into?
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
A discount on games would encourage players but still, I'm not happy in my mind - I'm dithering between straight fee or fee + x.
I've been checking reenactor groups - they charge £20 to £30 and provide the same benefits that we are offering except that they are joining a club that generally has their own group PLI as well.
Historically, costs CiA have incurred have been recovered through game fees, most costs being related to games anyway.
If we charge fee + x then we are duty-bound to offer something in return - this puts an obligation on us. One of the reasons I have steered clear of the question of a CiA club up to now. As things stand, once the next game is run we can piss off and do what we like - we have no obligation to anyone else.
Right, I've come to a decision through above reasoning. We administer AFRA membership under CiA affiliation for free. Forms are sent to us, we send to AFRA.
So, why is it important that chaps register through us?
Because we can only access our member's data through the AFRA passworded web site - which is used for risk assessment and checking. In other words, only those CiA affiliated members can come to private member do's, should we run one. And £15 ain't a lot to pay for personal insurance benefits, you might want to import RIFs (for which UKARA is useless), you can attend reenactor events as MOP without extra cost.
Sorted, I'm happy with at-cost. Review in a years time...
Sorry, I jumped your post Jay.
Agree to your three points.
In short, looking at it from the punters POV, what is it that they are buying into?
Points listed in above posts in detail.
Insurance question - fair point, I've outlined it in posts above but this needs answering in detail so I'll find out specifically.
ABOUT MEMBERSHIP
All persons aged 16 or above actively engaged in relevant aspects of Living History or Re-enactment of the period specified are able to apply for membership. AFRA is not about GROUPS. Groups do not join AFRA. People however, do. Your group may apply to be affiliated to the association should it decide to recommend its members join the Association unanimously. Membership runs from Han 1 to Dec 31 of the year. At present it costs £15.00 per annum and for this the member gets:
Admittance to a Members Area of the Website.
Admittance to the Members Forum
Access to the Events Section where they may inform the Association of their intent to attend a show on the calendar.
Access to the Risk Assessment Section where they may compile an online Risk Assessment to qualify for the relevant insurance.
Comprehensive Insurance Cover for Living History/re-enactment activities. (This includes – Third Party Public Liability Insurance, Theft cover from, to and at an event, Theft cover of items stored securely at home. Member to Member cover. Cover for Vehicles when not covered by the Road Traffic Act (in an arena or behind a rope on a display) Personal accident Cover.*)*some of these components are subject to conditions and have limits and excesses. The excess should be paid by the individual making the claim) Activities covered include Static Display, Interaction with the Public, Firepower Displays, Battle Recreation/re-enactment Displays, use of Pyrotechnics, Firearms, cartridges, Cannons and Black Powder, operating on, in or near a vehicle, Living History events.
I'll bring the specific question of insurance in relation to bb projectiles up with PD form answer.
I agree to the three points too, with perhaps the caveat that our exiting 'membership' should be able to back-date their eligibility to BotB....
Dave, completely with you on the fees front then. I see Guy's point about providing 'savings' for people.
We will essentially be acting as a conduit for our 'membership*' to apply to AFRA.
*Membership being those who actually attend and complete CiA affiliated events.
Question to PD:
One technical question regarding the personal injury and liability insurance - were the terms written with airsoft projectiles in mind. It's a bit different to blanks...
Answer from PD
Which is where I go back to my broker and speak to him and we also redraft certain parts of both Constitution and Rules. Once you guys have a clear direction (i.e. you decide you are coming on board and agree your terms externally) I will take the necessary steps. Hopefully in consultation with you to get it right.
Which may mean SH's direct approach would stall until the big boys (CiA) sort technicalities (would they bother for a group of four)...
Coolio. Cheers Dave.
I agree to the three points too, with perhaps the caveat that our exiting 'membership' should be able to back-date their eligibility to BotB....
Dave, completely with you on the fees front then. I see Guy's point about providing 'savings' for people.
We will essentially be acting as a conduit for our 'membership*' to apply to AFRA.
*Membership being those who actually attend and complete CiA affiliated events.
Yep if we can be the gate keepers to AFRA ( by providing free membership" and authorising players who been to games) . We benefit by providing incentive to play , cost us / members nothing , AFRA gets a win , and best of all we feck Stubblenobber plans for global dominance. No that last comment was tongue in cheek .
Als it would help legitimise sales on here between CiA Airsoft Reenactment Group members .
Good to see you back in style Jay
Yep if we can be the gate keepers to AFRA ( by providing free membership" and authorising players who been to games)
Hang on, I'm lost now. From what I understood from Dave, he suggested we administer membership for free through CiA but people who wish to take advantage of AFRA affiliation need to pay the £15. Have I got that wrong!?
I thought it was .....we adminster the scheme, take and pass on the £15 which then gets then the benefits of joining AFRA though affiliation via CiA .
However it's late & I'm off for a fag 
Ah, then we're both right then!! 
However it's late & I'm off for a fag
Thats a bit of a double entendre. If you're still walking funny on sunday, we know *exactly* what you meant. 
Right, back on topic. How do we sell this to the punters?
PAX insurance
Insurance for training days
Insurance for photo ops
Insurance cover for stolen equipment (with proviso's of course)
Ability to buy RIF's (this could give us a two pronged attack - buy directly with AFRA support, plus try and get on the UKARA scheme (which will be easier with Frenchie gone)
"legitimatises" the the activity of WW2 Airsoft a bit more.
Anything else?
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
PAX insurance
Personal insurance for CiA training days (we would have to officially organise and risk assess)
Personal insurance for CiA photo ops (we would have to officially organise and risk assess)
Insurance cover for stolen/damaged equipment (with proviso's of course)
Ability to buy RIF's (this could give us a two pronged attack - buy directly with AFRA support, plus try and get on the UKARA scheme (which will be easier with Frenchie gone)
"legitimatises" the the activity of WW2 Airsoft a bit more
Personal PLI for reenacting type events (required for 'promonading', public display, demonstrations)
Help with CiA forum sales - buyer can give AFRA number to seller (by PM) and we will offer a verification, if asked.
Gives reenactor wannabes who don't want to abide by usual reenactor group rules legit 'reenactor' status
Allow simple personal importation
Thats a helluva lot for £15 considering most Airsoft sites are charging more than that for a simple membership card!
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
Ooooh, it's tempting to get the drop on this before the weekend....
An announcement of intention followed by the official release to get people thinking about it and allowing them to post questions or concerns that we might not have thought of.
It is a bargain! And there is no obligation on CiA to provide a service, we are just a proxy.
Our only involvement will be some admin and a bit of correspondence.
Definitely a case of win-win. I have been racking my brains for the last 24hrs trying to think of a flaw in the plan - and I can't come up with one!
Well, the only thing I can think of is if a retailer is taken to court for supplying to someone without a defence. The 'WW2 airsofter as reenactor' status gets challenged and the Judge finds that the buyer was in fact an airsofter without suitable qualification. I imagine the retailer would be OK as he showed due diligence (accepting a reenactor's card) but still, that route of purchases will be cut off from that point on. There again, is a hypothesis...
We ought to register with the DPR (and strictly speaking should have done so already, pppff - so take me court big brother ) which is £25 from memory...
